by taxing. >> all right. do you think the fed -- this is the big question. people are worried about bonds. ten-year treasury bonds, right, have gone from about 140 last summer to about 2% today. upward move. so the fed's not really holding down bond prices -- bond rates even though they're buying so many. let me ask you, is the bond play a sucker play right now? if you think there's stronger growth coming and you see this stock market rally which has great legs, corrections or not, great legs, is it time to get out of bonds? >> yes, some investors, larry, have to be in bonds, they're benchmarked, certain liquidity and credit restraints. they have to be in treasuries. as an individual investor, you'd want to stay away from bonds. and if you were a speculative investor, you'd want a short bonds. there's no value in the treasury market. with nominal gdp even at 4% let alone the possibility we could accelerate to five. they don't belong at 2%, really somewhere over 4%. they won't get to 4% until the fed actually